59 replies to this topic

[Duckman]

Two quick points about price and value:

I'm in total agreement with Larry Currie and TomS2 about the relative value of higher mileage cars but that may not translate to what a buyer is willing to pay. Example; my car is very high mileage. It has 167+k miles. It has so many new parts that the mileage is not indicative of the actual condition of the vehicle. However, I don't believe that anybody would pay what I believe the value is. Therefore, it's more valuable to me to keep it than to sell it.

The prices of used Boxsters have dropped dramatically. A good friend just bought an as-new, low-mileage 2002 Boxster S for $23.9k. It's an awesome car for an awesome price. Good for him.

[TomS2]

Good point. I waffled a bit between a couple of cars with high 60s mileage and high 80's. I chose the high 80's because the clutch hydraulics and hardware had been replaced at 75, and cam guides also about 75, and it had a new top. The high 60's car, while fresher in some ways, was going to need all of that stuff in the next 18 months. And, I paid a bit less for the higher mileage car.


Agree that there is not a huge market for this car, but the really good ones do seem to go fast, so there must be some quiet stalkers out there, waiting for the right car.

Now if I could only interest them in a slightly used Honda van...

right now the market really isnt there. there is a nice 71k mile amazon green 92 on cars in spokane. i spoke with the owner. if it had LSD i would be on a plane to washington. the car has been on cars for probably two months. sure he isnt desparate to sell but thats a long time and his asking price is 13. he said his son in law scratched up the bottom plastics and the raido doesnt work. my first thought is there is something wrong with the car, but after speaking with the doctor i realize it is just the market.

i put a few feelers out on my S2 a few weeks back and got no response, not even a "i know someone that may be interested" reply. the market just isnt there.

i made an offer on one two days ago. i gave the seller a bunch of comparables, gave him the KBB of his car and the volvo we just bought from a dealer for 80% of KBB.

i think my offer bordered on an insult compared to his asking price, but based on my research.... and the fact that i may be the only game in town, and if i do buy it, i have to sell my S2 probably for less....

[earossi]

Well, I've just gone through two transactions on 968's in that I purchased a 93 coupe and then sold my 93 cab. I would agree with most of what has been written here, but feel that things may not be quite as bad as all seem to paint them. Of the two cars, my cab was in better mechanical condition in that it has fewer miles (84k) vs the coupe which has 92k. The cab also had a relatively new flywheel and clutch and had been maintained well. Neither car had any rust and were both east coast cars. Cosmetically, the cab was in great shape but was running on its original paint. The coupe has been repainted.

I purschased the coupe from a North Carolina independent dealer and the cab from a North Carolina private owner. When I purchased the cab a little over 2 years ago, I was able to negotiate a price of $13.5K. The car had 78k miles on it, but had been on Autotrader for several months. The owner had started out at $18.5k and lowered it several times to $15.5k when he and I began to negotiate.

When I put the cab up for sale early this month, in AutoTrader, I decided to offer it at a lower price than most of the cars being advertised, since most of the pricing was unrealistic (in my opinion). I offered my cab up for $12.6K, and surprisingly did NOT get very many calls (4 calls to be exact). Fortunately, one of the callers were local, came to see the car, had a PPI done, and we settled on $12.2K.

My purchase of the coupe was a similar saga. The dealer had had the car in inventory for 5 to 6 months. Had started out advertizing it in the high teens (16 or 17k), and apparently had no takers. When I contacted him, he was at $13k on Ebay. We negotiated over a two week period and I ended up getting the car for $11.2K. Though the car is in better cosmetic shape than the cab, it is a little bit rough mechanically. I believe that I'll end up putting about a thousand into the car to get it mechanically in shape.

The bottom line is that our cars suffer from several constraints.

Since Boxters are very rapidly depreciating, they now compete with the 968, with the nod perhaps going to the Boxter since it is newer technology. Then there is the fact that the 968 is really not known or understood by many folks in the market for a sports car. I had finally gotten to the point of telling folks that my 968 was a later version 944! Most people know what a 944 is since there are so many of them running around.

Not sure if the rest of the market for sports cars is suppressed, but wouldn't be surprised to find out.

But, in summary, I was able to sell my cab for about $2K less than I paid for it a little over 2 years ago.....which is great. Over that same time period, my 2001 Toyota has lost about $6k in value. So, it is definitely a buyers market (great for someone looking to get into these cars). And, if you buy right, you should be able to sell your car, when the time comes, without a huge loss.

[Bracer]

Here is some more pricing 'data'. And this one is in Canadian dollars! Should make all the cab owners happy, especially if her sells it.

Auto Trader Canada

[968Syncro]

Wow, that is a high asking price for 150,000 km! It must be very, very nice.

Unfortunately here is an example of the competition (in San Diego): 1997 Porsche Boxster Convertible - $10500
"Gorgeous black on black Boxster n excellent condition. Only 72,500 miles (mostly hwy). Well-maintained and cared for, nimble sports car. Six disk CD changer. The clutch (including the flywheel), radiator and brakes have all been replaced recently. Both the interior and convertible top are in great condition as well. Must sell (no trades)."
http://sandiego.crai.../765766306.html

Or another one: 1999 Porsche Boxster - $10500, http://sandiego.crai.../760624031.html. And there are 10 more between $12K and $15K.

Roland

[968cab]

It's been my experience that Porsche's don't hit the "collectible" status until they start approaching 30 years old; Around 20 years old seems to be a low point. I don't have any analytical data, but several personal data points. A '73 911T, purchased around $6k and sold for $12k at 30years of age. Ditto for a 914 and 912. I can't believe what some people are paying for these old things that have lots of rust and old technology. Additionally, they are not exceptionally rare, with production runs much greater than our cars.

Perhaps this type of price curve may never happen for our 968's, but it will be interesting to wait and watch.

-Mark

[Duckman]

A better-than-new '70 914-6 just sold on ebay for $33k. If I'd have had the cash laying around, I'd have paid it. It was an incredible car.

[xrad]

Roland: Did you ever drive the 90's Boxsters....there is a reason they sell for 10-15g's. not the best quality IMO.

[SpeedRacer64]

There was another over looked car in the 60’s that was mass-produced written off only to go nuts in the last 5 to 8 years...the mustang. While we don’t share the same mass appeal...those who know...know. I for one don’t believe the story of this/our car is closed...and I believe it’s just about to get interesting...to much history...exceptional design...and most important...low production numbers.

[968Syncro]

Roland: Did you ever drive the 90's Boxsters....there is a reason they sell for 10-15g's. not the best quality IMO.

Hi xrad, never did drive one, but explored them a couple of years ago. I was advised to absolutely stay away from the early ones, like many first generation car designs, I guess there were a number of flaws. I can't recall exactly, but I think the strong advice is to buy 2000 or newer and stay away from the early ones. I knew this when I posted the links, and in part because I believe the majority of potential buyers for the early Boxsters are not going to be people who research things real well, simply will buy because they can finally get a Boxster, or they think it is cool in comparison to other choices between $10-$15K, they won't make a technical buy. In my opinion what happened and continues to happen with 944s will happen with 90s Boxsters; they'll need expensive repairs after postponed maintenance, and the people who got them really aren't into it, they'll get neglected, and then passed around/resold, etc., and prices will drop and drop. I think 968 owners are much more caring, maybe not all original 968 owners, but once the 968 gets to someone who appreciates it. With the large number of Boxsters around, the people who really appreciate good cars are not going to choose these early ones.

Roland

[xrad]

100% agree. the newer Boxter S is definately WAY better in all regards. BUT..more expensive, too. And you could get the RUF 3.6L conversion..........hmmmmmmm

[Kim]

I am asking $25K for my cab - hoping to get it. Just figure that they don't make them anymore so if you want one, and it's in good shape with low kilometers, you gotta pay. The top 5% of what's available in terms of quality or wear should command a premium. You could get a cheapy one and then pay a lot of money almost immediately to get it up to snuff. I have two cars and I know that first hand from the second one.

[xrad]

I agree with your theory, Kim. But there is probably a cap of about 20-25g on even the best all stock cars these days.

[SpeedRacer64]

4 years ago, I paid 22.5K for my 94 w/ 12K miles on it. Some may say to much...for me not a hard decision, I had it cash and everything else new for the same money...well...just sucked. And at the end of the day....I just love the looks of the car. Cost of ownership to date....less oil changes 28K So it is possible

[flash]

i paid 28.5k for mine 5 years ago - if i found an identical car today, i'd pay the same without hesitation - you pay what the car tells you to, not the market

[xrad]

As the seller, if you want to make a sale, it would depend on how fast you want to get rid of a car..market independent.... and how much you will get...market dependent. Ex: I sold my Alfa GTV6. True value of everything 14,000, waiting 3 months for the right buyer to pay 7-8000$, market supporting 5000$, and then wanting to clean out the garage for the Porsche!!........so it sold at 3000$. Rare car and more rare buyers, but a car not special enough to command higher values. If you don't need the cash, just wait for the right buyer and keep your price where you think the car is valued.

As a buyer, yeah, you can pay whatever you want to.

[Kim]

and so I will keep mine. Hardly driven, as time goes by, as more get smashed up, and more get worn out, and there are just fewer to have, it will be worth it. Mick Jagger, who turned 65 yesterday, said "time waits for no-one" - but it might wait for a 968!

[xrad]

good move, Kim

[gryphon]

There are many advantages to being an unmotivated seller.

Tom

[PorscheDude]

When I listed mine, I was unmotivated and asked top $.

Guess what?

I still have it.

And I am just as happy.