49 replies to this topic

[PorscheDude]

That could not have been said any better.

Thats why I say they are cheap cars, drive the $h*% out of it.

I do not understand people who buy these types of cars (especially 968 people) and are afraid to drive them. They are CHEAP! and have lots more character than any sub $15k car.

Edited by smokiemon968, 07 April 2008 - 06:27 PM.

[Anchorman]

That pretty much summarizes why I didn't purchase a "garage queen", and why I've averaged more than 20k miles a year.

[barth7]

I think porsche may have the best advice and certainly the hottest avatar. I just really like my triple black 968, which is in very good caondition (surprisingly good for as many miles as it has), and don't want to run it in the ground. I mean, if I put 30/yr on it, eventually I'll have to put it out to pasture.

You have described part of the problem with looking for something else - I can find a 4 door Accord, whic seems practical, but gets maybe over 30 mpg. I can have gotten that in my 968! And it puts asses in seats! It's comfy, too.

I'll let you guys know what I end up doing. I did look at houses over here, but moving is such a hassle. Also, I may have at least a part time carpooling option.

[968Syncro]

Agree with those who said to drive the 968. That is why I bought and now retained mine, as a driver to work, store, etc. Why not enjoy this beautiful, efficient, and cost effective vehicle.

As another data point my temp car a '84 944 got 33 mpg on a trip that was essentially all freeway. A decent choice if you want your 2nd car to stay in the P-Car family.

I've been wondering if we'll see 250K miles or more on our 968 engines before rebuild is needed. I can't recall much data on this question. I think the engine is probably deemed to be very sound and reliable. 968s might end up having the same reputation as the 911 SC, which I got to 295K before my engine blew on that one. But there are many examples going to 300K or 400K before rebuild.

[flash]

lol - while i also agree that driving a 968 on a daily basis would be fun, i would not be able to have as much fun in such a daily car as i do in my current one, or in a race car i think it is perspective - a stock 968 would bore me silly on a daily basis if i did not have a hopped up one to play with occasionally, and a street car, no matter how modified, is just not up to the job of adequately making me happy on the track - that would mean having to have 3 cars to serve all purposes - the good news is that i think i can work that out, and have plans to do that - the bad news is more fleet management, storage, and a LOT more money involved

bottom line, what do you want from the car? what are you willing to spend in time and money?

[ds968]

Thats why I say they are cheap cars, drive the $h*% out of it.
I do not understand people who buy these types of cars (especially 968 people) and are afraid to drive them. They are CHEAP! and have lots more character than any sub $15k car.

I'm guessing it's not the cost, which is indeed dirt-cheap, but the fear that you are going to face a long wait and less and less choices with each passing year if you want to replace your current 968 with another one at the point when this one runs down. I know that concern has certainly crossed my mind once or twice..
Particualrly if you're picky about the car's color like I am, and whilst I don't mind buying another one with 100k + miles on it, I would like it in a near-showroom exterior and interior condition.. ( well, unless Ron - midblue - sells me his car when I run this one into the ground ) so, it's not going to be easy ! These cars are too rare to begin with, so finding another along one's taste may be weighing on the mind of those who want to minimize the miles they put on theirs

[Anchorman]

I guess I don't understand what "runs down" or "run into the ground" means. Maintain the car, and this doesn't happen. There are many examples of high mileage cars doing just fine. I'm at 160k+ miles, and there's nothing about the car that suggests it's a quarter of the way through its life.

[flash]

metal fatigue is a big concern to me, especially on a unibody car - i've worn out a chassis before - no rust, or signs of problems, just tired - not a pleasant concept

[Anchorman]

That would be, indeed, an unhappy situation. Do we know anything about that? Are there, in fact, signs - like the firewall cracks we're seeing, or the...(don't know what other issues)?

[flash]

typical signs are door rattles, dash rattles, paint cracking on the hinges, fender bolts coming loose, gaps between panels changing, etc

[Chris Vais]

I have to concur with porsche's perspective. My 968 is a daily driver. I'm putting about 10K a year on it and I expect that it will run a good while longer as long as I keep up with the maintenance schedule. I don't have luxury of being able to own a stable of cars where I can afford to own and maintain a "garage queen". Unfortunately, even if I were to focus on keeping the car in as new condition hoping that it might someday appreciate in value, I doubt I will live long enough to see it happen. Having driven most everything that is currently available from Porsche, if the 968 went away for some reason as nice lease return Caymen S or 997 will do quite nicely.

The absolute best reason I can think of for using the 968 as a daily driver is it is a nice ride, mine gets great fuel economy, my clients like riding in it, and best of all [b]Its paid for!!!

[flash]

all good reasons - i have a somewhat different standard when it comes to a daily driver - the 968 might suffice if i had a small budget, or could only have one car, but having been there done that, like many, i have come to find that i need more than one if i want to adequately address my needs - the load carrying capacity is too low to be a hauler - the back seat is too small to carry adults comfortably, and it is too heavy and slow to be fun enough as a toy in stock trim - not a bad compromise though, if you can only have one car

if however, you are looking to keep a 968 as the toy, and add a commuter, which would allow for maintaining the 968 in better running condition, thereby maximizing the fun factor, a more sensible commuter, requiring no time invested in maintenance, makes more sense

let me try to put this in perspective - at one time, many moons ago, i had 5 MGBs running at one time, and a warehouse of parts - i had a race car, a hot street car, a concours car, a GT, and a daily driver - i thought that since i loved the car so much, i could tailor each one to its specific purpose, and have my cake and eat it too

while my track driving improved, due to being in the same car all the time, my maintenance time spent dramatically increased - this was not due to any particular failing in the cars, merely their age, and the things that happen to old cars

how this applies to this particular situation is when it comes to an old car like the 968 - unless it has been completely gone through (remember that all the rubber in the car is way beyond its life expectancy), one can expect problems to come up, and their frequency to increase - a daily driver can't spend a lot of time in the shop, so things tend to be overlooked or ignored, further exacerbating the problem - it is unrealistic to think that the car will be as reliable in that daily use as a new car would be

i am not suggesting that people don't drive their 968s - quite the contrary, and i hope to start driving mine more - i am only pointing out that, as much as we all love our cars, they are old, and will be prone to problems more and more as time goes on

[Simuse]

Maybe just a bit of a different perspective...

I have had my 968 for about 2 1/2 years now and when I got her I had about a 5 mile round trip to work - drove her every day. Then met the perfect girl, got married, households moved, and I found myself with a 50 mile round trip in (often) stop and go traffic. That longer commute equaled (for me) a much higher chance of things going wrong.

Got rear ended. A rock came off a dump truck and put a silver dollar sized crack in the middle of the windshield. The bottom of one of those construction zone orange garbage cans flew (out of nowhere!) across the highway shattering everypiece of glass and plastic around the front right of the car. And then...last winter I left about an hour later than I should have from work in a snowstorm - I made it through a lot of stuff other people didn't in their 4x4's...but when I got back into city traffic at the first hill with a stop light on top I was screwed because of the line of traffic in front of me that was stopped. Barely got her into a parking lot...and there she sat for a week in a grocery store parking lot under a sheet of snow and ice - no way I was going to get her through the last set of hills to the house. Could have...but the way other folks were driving would have made it impossible...suffice it to say it killed me wondering how she was everynight!

So...........personally..........considering the damage I was getting driving her (she seemed like a magnet for everything)...I went and got a '92 Ford Explorer (Sport!) for about $3,500 with 90,000 miles on it. Okay - about 20 miles per gallon on a good day, but figured for the cost and time and trouble I was enduring I could get a new one every year and still come out ahead. Did a quick tune up and have been driving my Ford for the last year with no issues through the gauntlet of damage that is my commute.

So for me I didn't want to see my baby get hurt anymore. Shifted her to a classic car policy for about $200 a year, and focus more on improving her than maintaining her. I certainly weighed the buy new commuter car with a really good mpg, but when I balanced that against full insurance and the wear and tear versus just liability and a "bring it on" mentality I can have toward rocks and door dings and damage with the Ford it has certainly worked out.

I might even wash the Ford one of these years.

I don't disagree with anything anyone is saying here - both the "they're pretty cheap and meant to be driven", or the get a "real" newer high mpg commuter car - I just went with an old "if she dies tomorrow I'm okay with it" commuter car and it has worked out great so far...

[flash]

there is even a term back east for cars like that, though it escapes me right now - disposable older cars - the rust issue is so bad, that having anything else is a waste

the only problem i see with an older car is the repair cost, and who foots that bill - that's why i suggested the cheapest new highest economy car i could think of - no repair bills, small gas bills, and the same "who cares" philosophy of an older car

no good in snow though, so a 4x4 may make more sense if that is where it needs to be driven

another option would be an older bug - those things run on anything, and never break down

[RPM]

Looking at Barth's original question, I assume that he only has the 968 (and a Jeep rock crawler!). With that in mind I recommended a four door sedan - to ease the commute on both 968 and driver. All of Simuse's anecdotes on the wear and tear on a commuter car ring true. Harsh weather, bad visibility in traffic (both outward and for other drivers who don't look down this low), road hazards, bad drivers, to say nothing of commuting in heavy traffic with a clutch that is not exactly light. A sporty mid-sized sedan with automatic would be a good second car. Lots more room for groceries and other crap on occasion and probably an easier commute.

Yes, yes, I know you can commute in a 968. I do it every day - and occasionally I have a blast. But most days I am just piling empty miles on a car I really want to keep fairly nice. If I could get yet one more car (the kids have cars too), it would be more of a sporty commuter. Then the 968 could avoid all of the crap and only travel to work with me on the nice days.

The NC Highway Patrol sells off their old CVPIs near where I work and I have been eyeing one as the perfect commuter.

CVPI - Crown Victoria Police Interceptor

[PorscheDude]

The NC Highway Patrol sells off their old CVPIs near where I work and I have been eyeing one as the perfect commuter.

CVPI - Crown Victoria Police Interceptor

Cop breaks, cop engine, cop tires. Full tank of gas!

[Chris Vais]

there is even a term back east for cars like that, though it escapes me right now - disposable older cars - the rust issue is so bad, that having anything else is a waste

The term you're searching for, or at least the one that I learned when I was in the service was "salt car". I still had my speedster when I was stationed for a brief period of time in the northeast. The first really good snowstorm filled the Speedster up with snow despite the fact that I had the top up and the side curtains in. The CO took pity on me and permitted me to park it in the hanger with the airplanes. He told me to go buy a "salt car". Being a Califonia Kid, I had no idea what a "salt car" was, so he told me that I should go to a used car lot and purchase the cheapest running car I could find, drive it for the winter and then in the spring, once the salt was off the roads, take it to the local wrecking yard, remove the plates and the registration documents and just walk away.

I bought a 1959 Plymouth fury. What a ride. It had rust outs in the front fenders that were so big when you drove in the wet the water/slush sprayed out of the front fenders like a garden nozzle.

Edited by Chris Vais, 09 April 2008 - 09:40 AM.

[barth7]

Cop breaks, cop engine, cop tires. Full tank of gas!

"We're on a mission from God"

Good points by many here. I am in Alabama, so no salt cars needed here. Still undecided on which direction to take. Smart money is on moving.

I can at least make this thread interesting with a pic. Here is my Jeep a couple incarnations ago - these are 33"tires and it's wearing 36s now. No pics of my 968 with me.



Current stance:



And here is the 968 before I lowered it:

Attached Files

•  ORCs_Ride_11_16_02_get_it.jpg   97.77KB   6 downloads

[kodomokid]

+1 on Audi A4
Also consider an A3.

I would give another vote ont he A3. I have driven my friend's '06 A3. 6spd with 2.0T. This engine gets really good gas mileage. Better than any 1.8T engine could get. Keep in mind that though the Quattro version is attractive, it only comes with the 3.2VR6 which can be thirsty. I have a Jetta VR6 wagon which tends to be thirsty even on the hwy.

But back to the A3. It has a really nice sounding exhaust note, the performance is on par for European cars. The only thing that you may not like is the road noise. It can get pretty noisy if the hwy surface is corse. The mileage my friend gets is pretty amazing. He does mostly hwy driving to get to work, around 20 miles one way. He has been getting over 400 miles for one tank.

[barth7]

Here is a great local dealer. They have a selection of everything and if you go to a particular model it shows EPA mileage estimates and everything. A3 has 29mpg and A4 30.

http://www.tomwill.com/index.htm