27 replies to this topic

[Miami M3]

im going to take a look at this car the early part of next month and wanted to get feedback and a sense of the right price if everything checks out


here's the relevant info from emails between myself and the owner - car is in SW Fla area


1) 1993 968 Coupe (midnight blue/cashmere) 117,000 miles VIN WPOAA2965PS820237

owned this car since 2000. It has always been maintained by myself and Lowe's Automotive in Sarasota. I bought it when I worked at Suncoast Porsche and almost always used OE parts.

Body
Midnight blue with Cashmere Beige full leather interior. front seats need covered or Sparco replacement
OE Optional upgraded audio system with Clarion CD unit
Repainted by local Ford dealer 2 years ago & is always garaged
A/C is cold & never has been repaired.

Chassis
928 S4 front Brakes with stainless braided lines
17 inch 993 Cup (Cup 2) wheels 7.5 front & 9 rear with proper offset. Very hard to find offset.
Like new Bridgestone RE-11 tires, 225/45/17 & 255/40/17
Ground control Koni racing coil over set (1 year old)
M030 sway bars front & rear (OE performance)
Lower suspension tie bar
Upper strut bar
corner balanced by German Specialties in Clearwater

Engine
RS Barn stage 1 chip
Air intake modification with K&n filter
Recent OE new, not rebuilt ($600) water pump and all belts
Recent cam chain and tensioner pads

short shift kit and momo shift knob


also from the owner answering some questions --

Always syn oil. Red line in diff. Super blue fluid. Timing belt done with water pump.

The pinion gear can be an issue. I have not had it replaced, nor is it noisey. Years ago spoke to Porsche trans experts to discuss this. The pinion brg is under a very high preload due to the trans construction. As the trans warms the load on the bearing decreases and lessens stress on the brg. I am a big sissy and always drive my cars very easy until they are properly warmed.

I worked with Jay at ground control and he would remember me if asked. I was a pain in the ass. When I first put it together is was unhappy. The car has a special eccentric that allows the car to be lowered properly to use the coils on the rear with torsion bars. The front springs were too short. We tried another set that were designed by Jay. They are 250-320 progressive rate the struts are made by GC and are 1" shorter custom valved Koni sport. The rear rate is 150 lb plus stock torsion rate. this set up has 2000 miles and rides great. The corner balance and align was done in Tampa by German Specialties.

photos attached (hopefully)

Attached Files

•  left side rear quarter 968.JPG   174.87KB   0 downloads
•  interior.JPG   124.12KB   0 downloads

[flash]

the 993 Cup wheels are a plus, as are the tires if they show well

the GC setup is a minus. i've not seen that done right yet, further evidenced by the problems this owner had. this may take some rework to get it right. a quick jacking of the rear end of the car will tell you. if the springs fall free, it still isn't right. the progressives on the front are interesting, and i'd like to know where they got those.

the "recent" belt work needs a date attached. belts need to be done every 3 years, regardless of how few miles put on them.

the interior is shot. the carpet is toast and the seats need complete rework, likely including new foam. you would probably get away cheaper with a different pair.

the mileage isn't low, but if the variocam has been done, as well as the rod bearings and a head freshening (which i don't see any of in the list) then the mileage wouldn't matter so much. if not, then you can expect to spend $2k just about right out of the gate.

the front brake change without a corresponding rear change is a minus.

the repaint can be a good or bad thing, depending on how well it was done, and what was wrong to begin with.

the momo knob will almost certainly buzz

there are a few goodies, but they don't total to much, so i would not factor that in.

based on what i see, the car is worth probably $7.5k-$8.5k if everything else checks out. less if there are other problems.

[Miami M3]

thanks Flash
i need to push the owner on getting the service records - he says he can get them printed out

what exactly needs to be done, or what am i to look for in terms of variocam servicing, rod bearings and head freshening ?

this car is also in the same area 93 coupe, 71k miles asking $17k

http://forums.R.L..c...t-de-968-a.html

seems like it has a helluva lot done to it - but i was searching on pelican parts forum and found that the owner had major issues with the ground control set up and was very unhappy at Sebring (which is where I would spend much of my time w/ the 968) - - that's why i asked the other owner about his GC set up and was pleasantly surprised that he had issues but seemed to get them addressed by GC - and the custom valved koni shocks

[Miami M3]

not sure why but the link to the second car doesnt work - here's the details


Year: 1993
Make: Porsche
Model: 968
Porsche Model: 968
Mileage (numbers only please): 71000
Options (Please check ALL which apply): Air Conditioning, Alarm System, Antilock Brakes, Cruise Control, Foglamps, Intermittent Wipers, Power Brakes, Power Door Locks, Power Steering, Power Windows, Sunroof
Color: Black
Price (no $ sign please): $17000
Private or Dealer Listing: Private Listing
Location (Region): SouthEast
Body Style: Coupe
Transmission Type: Manual - 6 speed
2 or 4 Wheel Drive?: 2 Wheel Drive
Engine Type: Fuel Injection
Stereo System: AM-FM CD
1993 Porsche 968 For Sale, 71,XXX miles, Black with gray interior. Vehicle was recently purchased to be set up for street and Driver’s Education track events. Vehicle was purchased at 70,700 miles and completely gone through at that point to be mechanically fresh and modified to handle some track time.

At that point, the vehicle was completely gone through as follows:
-Timing belt, water pump, rollers, and all oil seals on front of motor
-Valve cover gasket replaced
-New battery
-Rear main seal replaced
-Transmission pulled to replace pinion bearings (Factory Limited Slip Differential)
-New spark plugs
-Drive belts
-Motor mounts
-Oil pan resealed and new level sender
-Whatever was needed got replaced

Modifications:
-New clutch with lightweight flywheel
-RS Barn chip designed with open air box and open free flow exhaust (cat bypass / modified resonator / magna flow muffler / stock tip).
-Koni coil overs front and rear. Torsion bars removed.
-M030 front and rear sway bars
-BBS wheels with new Toyo R888 tires.
-Corner balanced and aligned for track
-Kirk Racing 4 point bolt in roll bar
-Sabelt Titan Seats with Sabelt 6 point harnesses. Stock belts also in place and functional
-Sparco Steering wheel with Momo adapter and NRG quick release
-Design 1 racing lower caster brace
-KLA strut brace
-Camber plates
-Pagid Black Pads all the way around and OE Pagid pads for the street
-Zimmerman cross drilled rotors all the way around.
-Custom lightweight door panels
-Rear seats removed
-Stainless brake lines
-Super Blue Racing fluid
-GT Racing front splitter (fitted to car, not painted in pics)


This car has all of the functionality of a stock 968, just better. The 400 lb front and 700 lb rear springs make the car firm but not harsh. Vehicle weighs about 2850 lbs with the stock rear glass and all of the carpet. The original plan with this car was to build a 968 turbo with a 951 turbo motor stroked and bored to 3.0 liters. I have a 951 motor and a 3.0 crankshaft (lightened, knifed and drilled already) that are for sale, but not included in the sale of the car. I still have a set of stock seats so the car could be sold with those as well should somebody not be interested in the Sabelt Titans. The paint is original and I would say in good condition for a 21 year old car. There are some slight imperfections but that is to be expected. The prior owner bought the car with low miles an drove it as a daily driver to about 70k miles before getting a company car and selling this car to me. Our shop (European Performance | Specializing in Porsche, BMW, and Mercedes since 1983) serviced this vehicle while he owned it as well. Since the above work has been done the car has seen a total of 3 days at Sebring for PCA Driver’s education events and some street use. This car cannot be recreated with everything that has been done for the asking price.

Asking $17,000

http://s607.beta.pho....tml?sort=3&o=0

[flash]

the second car definitely sounds better, if you are looking for a more track oriented car. i'd love to see the pics, but the link freaks out.

[Cloud9...68]

I'd like to hear how the owner of the second car got it down to 2850 pounds. That's a reduction of over 200 lbs, which isn't easy to do, considering he added a roll bar.

[Miami M3]

the second car definitely sounds better, if you are looking for a more track oriented car. i'd love to see the pics, but the link freaks out.

you think it's worth $17k ?

[tamathumper]

That second car sure has a lot of aftermarket goodies on it for $17K. And it's got factory LSD. Hopefully that pinion bearing job was done right and won't be a future issue.

Cloud, my car loses over 200 pounds every time I get out of it.

[flash]

m3 - it depends on what you are looking for. price is really subjective. if you want a track rat, then this could be a great car. if you want a smooth comfortable street car, then this is probably not it, and it would cost you some money to get it there, and reduce the value as it stands. there are a number of mods on that car that are not street friendly, and would have to be removed and restored to stock. also, you'll have to decide for yourself how much cosmetics factor into the price, and you'll have to see it in person to decide that one.

the first thing to do is decide what kind of car you want, and what the primary use is. then go about finding that car. at this point there are all sorts of them out there, as people have now had 20 years to tweak them the way they wanted to, and you are pretty likely to find just the right one, if you can wait for it.

[Miami M3]

thanks again Flash - the second car (17k) posted photos in his R.L. ad - and its a complete racecar - seats, six points, etc. - not really looking for a track only car - and i think at $17k i would spend a bit more and run a corvette c5 z06 for about $20k -

im going to focus on the first car (blue/cashmere) - the owner wants $11k for it - but looks like it's not really worth that much considering the shot seats/carpets and the likely $2k + in maintenance right around the corner

im not sure if i will continue to search for a different 968 altogether - or see what i can get him down to - there was a white 93 coupe - i think you posted it in this section that just sold with more mileage but all maintenance done for $9,995 on ebay - good looking car

Russell

[Rap]

Having just recently gone through this be patient and do a PPI. Both of these factors found me a car and saved me money up front. After that its a different story but that's on me!

[94SilverCab]

I would walk away from the blue/cashmere unless you are very handy and need a project. (Sadly) there are a lot of decent 968s out there for $12k-$15k that need a lot less work. Figure all in you are going to end up spending $20-$25k for a very good, well sorted, car. Lingenfelder's car just sold at auction for $22,000.

Jay

[flash]

yeah - unfortunately most owners think their car is in better shape than it really is. the ones that are in great shape usually belong to an enthusiast who is not going to sell the car.

[WJH]

yeah - unfortunately most owners think their car is in better shape than it really is. the ones that are in great shape usually belong to an enthusiast who is not going to sell the car.

So, so true. The guy that owned mine died otherwise it probably wouldn't have been sold.

[Rap]

Of course once you get it in great shape it's generally too expensive to sell!

[tamathumper]

Amen, brother.

[Miami M3]

you guys are killing me - lol

i think i will pass on the second car - too track oriented even though looks like it has most mechanical issues sorted out

i guess i will see and test drive the first car (blue/cashmere) - perhaps pay the $100 or so for a PPI and then make a final decision

which brings me to next question, can anyone recommend a shop to do a PPI in the Sarasota area ?

[tamathumper]

If you pay the PPI fee on five cars, and only buy the fifth knowing what you're getting into as a result, it will be $500 well spent.

[Qfrank]

Suncoast Porsche is a good source. Several 968's go there, from track to street. Ryan is the tech that should look at the car, he does all the performance aspects for Suncoast Motorsports. Plus they have a labor rate of $80/hr for cars older than 2000, which is nice.

Scottshop, inc is another good source. 941-923-1382
Scott Kamrath is the owner, he did a bunch of service work on my car from previous owner. He has been doing this a long time, and is great with older cars.

These 2 shops are about 8 miles apart.

[Miami M3]

Suncoast Porsche is a good source. Several 968's go there, from track to street. Ryan is the tech that should look at the car, he does all the performance aspects for Suncoast Motorsports. Plus they have a labor rate of $80/hr for cars older than 2000, which is nice.

Scottshop, inc is another good source. 941-923-1382
Scott Kamrath is the owner, he did a bunch of service work on my car from previous owner. He has been doing this a long time, and is great with older cars.

These 2 shops are about 8 miles apart.

thanks - the car was originally from Suncoast - i have a photo of it with a Suncoast logo in the windshield - seems like the best choice - ill ask for Ryan