44 replies to this topic

[boholio]

I am in the hunt for an LS powered 968...  Anyone out there have or know of one that needs a new home?
Thanks!

[flash]

they do pop up for sale.  so far, with one exception (and i think it's only a matter of time) all of the ones i have seen built, have been sold or wrecked.

 

i know of a few that have been wrecked, and one guy who pulled the motor out and put back in the supercharged 968 engine, because the V8 powered 968 was a crappy car to drive.  horrible idea.  better to just buy a vette

 

but to each his own

[ds968]

The mechanic who rebuilt my engine had an LS conversion in the shop ..going on a consecutive fourth year of working on it to get the kinks out and perfect it but even after all that time, countless modifications , enhancements and fine tuning of practically every component of the car from bumper to bumper he still wasn't thrilled with the quality of its drivability . But like flash said, each person has different expectations and different tolerances for compromises they're willing to make in return for all that brute power. Just as long as you don't expect the car to feel and drive anyway near as refined as a 968 .

[boholio]

Well guys... You'll be happy to hear that I am actually picking up a supercharged 968, hopefully this weekend.    More to come!

[flash]

well, hopefully it's not an sfr kit or 928MS raptor kit.  neither one of those run that well.  they just weren't finished, and the tuning left a lot to be desired.  there are quite a few bad reviews on them, and i don't think they are selling them anymore as a result.  

 

there is a really nice black cab with a good kit on it for sale here on this site.  we know the car, and trust it well

 

http://www.968forums...-968-cabriolet/

[boholio]

What/where are the issues with the later 928MS kits?

[flash]

the stage 1 kit doesn't run well.  they only use a rising rate pressure regulator to address fuel needs.  they do no programming whatsoever.  that does not adequately deal with the fuel needs.  also, it does not address the part throttle/on boost lean condition at all.  further, they drive the belt on the smooth side, which causes belt burnout.  they change out the dual speed dual fans for a single electric fan.  that does not provide as good of a cooling system as stock.  every one of these kits that i have heard about has had issues with this.  even the guy who had a magazine article written about his car has since gotten rid of the kit.  a guy in australia fought for over a year, and spent over $10 trying to get the 928MS kit working right.  ultimately he yanked it off and bought one of mine.  he has since bought another one of mine.

 

the stage 2 kit had to use a standalone computer.  i cannot speak to how well that setup runs, but i can bet that they did not create the "silver bullet" map that i did, which addresses the part throttle/on boost issues.  also, they use the 3rd generation injectors, which i tested and proved to have issues, due to the size of our pistons and shape of the combustion chamber, which is why i went back to the 1st generation injector design, and had larger ones made for my kit.

 

in developing my kit, i had to adjust 20 of the 142 maps in the computer.  anything less caused less than desirable running conditions.  the 928 kit is incomplete.  that's why i didn't buy one, and developed my own.  i wanted to, and begged him to complete the kit properly.  i had my big fat checkbook revved up and ready.  he refused.  i had no desire to design one, but because he refused to do the job right, i had no choice.  in the end, i am glad i did, and am proud of the fact that it is so complete that it is 50 states smog legal.

 

seriously, on top of the fact that the kit on there is problematic, the car you are looking at has an awful lot of miles on it, and is not well optioned.  the car i linked to is a LOT better, has half the miles of the other one, and actually runs right.

 

you've heard the old adage "pay me now or pay me later"?

 

there is a LOT of information here about these kits.  do yourself a favor and read up before spending any money.  you won't regret it.  also, you can ask the 60 some odd people here who have my kit about how well it runs.  you will be hard pressed to find anybody with the 92MS kit.  i know there are a handful of them out there, but as far as i know, there is only 1 of them running, and it was the test mule car.

[flash]

by the way, i have no motivation here either.  i have stopped making my kits, and have shut down all operations in preparation for my move to ireland

[Delaney]

I have #60 and the change in the car is amazing!

[ds968]

I thinki it's important not to confuse the seat-of-the-pants sensation with the actual performance result; I owned a ' 70 440 'cuda which felt as if it would simply annihilate my SC 968 , and yet the actual performance numbers, whether 0-60 , or the Q mile, are the reverse of that . ( referring to my six speed that is, not the tip -although even that one is marginally quicker according to the Dynolicious ) So I'm sure an LS equipped frankenporsche , or a more powerful supercharger than the D1R SC sounds appealing or may even give you a butt-o-meter affirmation that you have a monster on your hands, but I wonder if the incremental gain you might get is worth the drivability compromises and the headaches you'll have trying to get the car to run halfway decently .
Like flash said, a moot point now because the D1R kits are no longer available , but this has such a smooth and linear performance that I can't imagine anything out there you could do to a 968 ( short of a factory turbo ) that would be any better, all around .

Edited by ds968, 17 April 2017 - 01:41 AM.

[az968]

In case you need more horsepower than the D1R SC.

 

http://www.automobil...ws-in-new-york/

Edited by az968, 17 April 2017 - 05:28 PM.

[ds968]

Will that engine fit in the 968 ?

[az968]

Sure, just need some minor sheet metal mods, oh, and some minor electrical, oh, and some minor suspension mods, oh, and some minor transmission tweaks, oh, and some minor rear gearing changes, oh, and some wider tires. But, all in all, pretty straight forward.  And better than an LS engine. Maybe need stronger motor mounts too.

 

I think Flash was working on kit that a while back, he may still have the spare parts.

Edited by az968, 17 April 2017 - 06:36 PM.

[flash]

lol - it never ceases to amaze me at how many people think you can just stuff a big motor into any car.  i've done my fair share of such silly projects.  fun for a minute, but they never drove like they did with the factory engine.  the reality is that car companies spend a LOT of money designing their cars, and doubling power is never easy.  it always results in bringing to light the shortcomings of the car.  the 968 is not built to manage the amount of torque that a V8 produces.  the chassis will need to be reinforced.  it is not geared anywhere near civilized for a V8.  a new transaxle will be needed.  then there is the electrical nightmare.  many things in the 968 run through the ECU.  you can't eliminate it.  those things will need to be adapted to work with the standalone for the engine.  then we get to the suspension and brakes.  more power means more suspension load and more speed, requiring more brakes.  the list is endless.

 

the bottom line is that, while it can be done, it's going to be very expensive.  you can plan on at least $50k to do it right.  in the end though, what do you have?  a hatchback with a chevy V8.  sounds like a vette to me.  even if you chose the convertible version, you would still be better off with a vette, if only because the power top actually works.

 

keep in mind that i HATE vettes, but i'd take one of those any day over a 968 with a chevy V8 in it.  it's just a bad match.

[ds968]

Ha, who's talkimg about a puny V8 ? I"m thinking a Viper V-10 at the very least , or maybe the Veyron's V 16 if we can jam it in the 968 engine bay . All you'd need is just that hood scoop so the the fourth turbo has a little more breathing room . And oh yeah, maybe the tip will require a reinforced flex plate, they're a little weak to begin with, but otherwise the six speed should be able to handle that without any other mods , no ?

Edited by ds968, 18 April 2017 - 01:06 AM.

[flash]

roflmao

[94SilverCab]

Wouldn't it be easier to drop a 968 (styled) body onto a Corvette frame? Still, I see no good reason to do it...

 

JMHO,

 

Jay

[ds968]

Back to the LS conversion ; I think the "at least $ 50 K" is a pretty exaggerated number, or , perhaps more reflective of the Flash standard rather than what most normal people would be statisfied with . IIRC, the mechanic I mentioned previously who did that conversion is also a finicky guy who wants everything to be as close to perfect as possible and unless I'm mistaken he said it added up to less than $ 20 K ..but then again he did 100% of the work himself and he runs a parts warehouse so maybe access to, or even buying new components at wholesale is considerably cheaper .

[flash]

i did say "to do it right".  

 

this would mean a new engine, not some used piece of junk - $10k

it would mean a transaxle built for the job - $10k

chassis reinforcement - $2k

brakes - $3k

suspension - $3k

tires/wheels - $5k (that's a very conservative number too

electronics work - $1-$2k

standalone ignition - $2k

tuning for standalone - $3k

 

i've got $39-$40k right there.  please note i did not include the kit for installation, nor ANY labor costs (except tuning and electronics work)

 

also, time is money, so "doing it yourself" is not free.  any time spent building the car has to factor in the cost of the time away from work, or vacation or whatever else.  then, there is the "shiny stuff" you have to buy the wife for even starting on a project like this

[ds968]

You can find NEW LS1 engines ?!

Anyway, I do remember he said the electrical / electronics work was a colossal PITA in terms of time spent to get it to work right, synch with the computer , etc. and that's what he was still tweaking years later ...